Free Will? What Will You Choose?

Let’s talk about choice. Believers are fond of telling everyone that their god gives us free will so what we can choose to be with their god or not. They say we choose god or satan etc.

The definition of choice is roughly:

: the act of choosing : the act of picking or deciding between two or more possibilities

: the opportunity or power to choose between two or more possibilities : the opportunity or power to make a decision

But does religion, and by extension the requisite deities, actually give us a choice? Well, according to monotheism, if you decide not to choose you have not chosen their god so by default you have chosen hell or punishment or whatever they want to call it. In the end, this free will we are supposedly given doesn’t do much for us as the only choice is Hobson’s Choice

Either choose their god or go to hell. That’s not a choice of two or more things. You only get to choose from one thing, take it or leave it. You’re going to get hell according to their doctrine no matter what you do UNLESS you choose their deity. That is NOT a choice. Choose their god or burn for eternity. Choose their god or be punished for eternity. Not just for a day or week or something, for eternity. Oh, you don’t get a choice about eternity either. That’s not even on the discussion table.

Monotheism is absolutely certain – do as we tell you or be punished forever. They don’t really care if they can’t tell you what this heaven place is like or what it’s about they just know that if you don’t choose it you’re going to be tortured forever. Eternal punishment for not ‘choosing’ what they told you to choose. Oh, and what if you never heard about this choice? You’re still going to burn.

Free will? hahahahahahahahahahahaha

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  1. I fully support the recent movement of some Christian churches doing away with the concept of hell. They don’t like that people only believe in God or follow the bible out of fear of punishment. I agree with this completely. If you’re going to be religious, it should be because it feels right to you, not because you’re being threatened with damnation for all of eternity if you don’t believe as you’re told.

    • How does one claim Christianity without hell?

      • Actually the fire and brimstone version of hell did not come along until later in Christianity. Originally, hell was simply not being in heaven. And of course there are about a thousand different ways to interpret the bible. There are passages that mention a last chance for souls to repent and accept God to be accepted into Heaven. Depends on who you talk to though. You know Christians. They all think they’re right. Personally, I think they’d have better luck not looking like a bunch of assholes if they weren’t threatening people with a lake of fire if they don’t get in line.

        • They get the idea of a lake of fire from many sources, but it’s right there in the Bible:
          Hades has similarities to the Old Testament term, Sheol as “the place of the dead”. Thus, it is used in reference to both the righteous and the wicked, since both wind up there eventually.[27]
          Gehenna refers to the “Valley of Hinnon”, which was a garbage dump outside of Jerusalem. It was a place where people burned their garbage and thus there was always a fire burning there. Bodies of those deemed to have died in sin without hope of salvation (such as people who committed suicide) were thrown there to be destroyed.[28] Gehenna is used in the New Testament as a metaphor for the final place of punishment for the wicked after the resurrection.[29]

          • Huh, you learn something new everyday. But I personally see nothing wrong with churches moving away from the fire and brimstone. What they’re teaching to balance things back out, if they are at all, I don’t know.

            • It is Dante’s Inferno that gives us the ‘classic’ picture of hell, but he just put fine touches on what was already there. I just don’t see Christianity without that threat… it’s right there in the book.

              Moving away from it in doctrine doesn’t change the valueless proposition that religion is to start with. Just makes it seem not quite so nasty.

              • Oh I agree, I dislike religion in general, but I do think that if some one is going to follow it, then it shouldn’t be out of being threatened. But hey if you don’t like the thought of then that’s you.

                • Agreed, it could be much less caustic… I’d just as soon see it lose all influence in society…

                  • Agreed. Society needs to just grow up and ditch the safety blanket.

                    • Ramen!

                    • And start making our way to Earth 2.0

  2. If free will exists there could not be an omniscient god. If there were no free will then an omniscient god could exist.

    • Ohhhhh, don’t go confusing me with logic! Damnit! That’s an entirely different post or six and from a religious perspective free will shows that god does not exist… never mind that plan he has for each of us since before we were born… gah gah gah… now I have to get that thought train out of my head before I can sleep.

    • preacherontheweb
    • October 3rd, 2013

    As a priest I must say I disagree with you absolutely.

    Some Christian sects will say that you either believe or go to hell, not all.
    In fact the majority of the recognized religious sects or long standing denominations will tell you just as I am going to now.

    You are given a free will.
    You can decide whether to believe or not believe – no pressure
    Anybody can go to hell, both Christian and non believer, its just that everybody’s hell is viewed differently.
    I don’t believe that a person who has decided not to place their faith in a deity is destined for hell, whatever you concieve hell to be.

    • Can a non-believer go to Heaven?

    • So, what then does happen to someone who dies without having placed their faith in a deity?

        • Earl
        • October 3rd, 2013

        It is silly to ask where someone goes when they die. Isn’t that between them and the god(s)? What is open for discussion is how a person behaves and what beliefs they hold while they are alive. Those aspects are fair game. Religious people and otherwise have every right to examine and criticize eachother’s beliefs since belief is provably linked to behavior, and behavior is provably linked to social consequence which all member of society suffer. One thing I respect about religious people is that they profess actual beliefs and are in most cases systematically defined, whereas many so called atheists have only a rejection of certain systematic beoiefs but no systematic belief of their own. In other words it is easy to tear down others but difficult to build something superior to traditional religion.

        • That is simply not true. Doctrine is not required to have beliefs of your own. We, as a society, generally have a set of rules that we live by and these are mirrored in law. Law does not define customs or tradition nor morality outside of preventing harm in general.

          It is not conducive to a free society to enforce systematic beliefs on all the people. To wish for that is to not want freedom of person nor of religion.

          There are many non-believers that profess specific beliefs. If you look at those that claim to be humanists, they have specific beliefs. You should look into it.

    • dgirl1986
    • October 3rd, 2013

    Seems to be two issues. That which you describes and then there is the issue of god apparently (claimed by christians) changing his mind when he sees fit and controlling a persons decisions if enouh people pray for it. Plus, how can we have free will if god has a plan?

    • Well, I was mostly just addressing the problem of choice, the problem of free will in the shadow of the Christian deity is even more problematic, more so than you have so far imagined.

      If the plan was not bad enough, manipulation of the space-time continuum on behalf of prayers removes any facade of free will. Mix this with the demons running around who can possess a body/person/mind and all bets are off.

      The very act of prayer changes the original plan unless that was part of the plan, then the plot thickens because we are, at this point, automatons whose idea of free will is not even a facade, rather it is a delusion.

      Now, back to the plan. Free will for believers is to allow them to choose, but god already has a plan for them so those that do not choose and will be condemned to eternal torture is because of their deity’s plan. This means all the good feeling that believers derive from faith is false, like the cow marching toward the slaughter house with a smile kind of false.

      The very ideas embodied in religion make their deities impossible unless we are but dreams of the Brahma.

      Wait, it gets better – If you pray for a new job and get it, then that was part of the plan and your prayers were meaningless. So why pray? Why would a deity ask you to pray for what was already planned? Think about it……

      Know how you have to invite a vampire into your home? I’m just saying….

      The Christian god invented evil and then set a plan in place for all the serial killers to do what they do. He invented the black plague and AIDS. Oh, they can claim satan does that but the most powerful being in all existence and non-existence allows it to happen – it’s part of his plan.

      His plan includes crack babies and a child starving to death every 6 seconds somewhere on this planet.

      The real magic here is that he convinced people to think he is good, in fact they think he is pure and all good.

      He’s the most malicious entity in all existence, bar none.

      If I could do anything I want for 24 hours, no limits… I would spend it watching that god fucker die slowly, horribly, but permanently.

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