This Is The Truth – Uncut

I’ve been a bit busy lately. Understatement is a fine thing. I’m still working on focusing more attention on Islam. I’ve noticed that among apologetics there is a tendency to argue in disingenuous ways, throw out as many argument points as possible and criticize when not all are answered while never answering any of the points put to them except to pose more argument. Muslim apologetics takes this to the shouting in your face level and, to be truthful, the level that makes them seem not only delusional but woefully uninformed as to the level of intelligence of their opponents. It almost seems like they don’t understand that there is scientific knowledge and much of the rest of the world has more of it than they do.

This trend of arguing as if a person only needs a little bit of science and the Muslim holy books have a little bit, so you don’t need any of that new science stuff is insulting, even on a good day. Here is a site that deals with some of the most egregious acts of quote mining (Can you say Expelled in Arabic?). Listen, like, follow, share…. This is the truth – uncut   and a taste of the site…

 

 

You might think “well, that was years ago, they aren’t this sill now” and you would be wrong. There are some that would want to do things as stupid as banning the use of tomatoes or legislate the way they are prepared.

 

Dangerous and stupid ideas collect and foment dangerous and stupid people. Note that I did not say that all people who believe in dangerous and stupid ideas are stupid… it merely seems that way most days.

By the way, I’m still looking for some intelligent and articulate Islamic apologist. Does anyone know of one? The search so far has been one deep, deafening facepalm after another. Please let me know in the comments if you know of an Islamic apologist who at least seems like he has graduated high school. Yes, it will probably have to be a ‘he’ since they won’t allow women to be fashionable let alone speak.

Next time, Ramadam and perhaps some other ramblings about Islamic traditions.

 

Be.

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    • Alan
    • July 15th, 2012

    I have little doubt that few Muslims would endorse my ‘support’, but simply from the evidence, theirs is the more rational position vs. say atheism or a rejection of organized religion. For fourteen centuries Islam has been nurturing functioning communities. The last functioning, competitive communities (that managed to survive a century or more) without religion were the Neanderthals. Once religion was introduced, about 50k years ago, those without religion have been out competed. Natural born atheism went extinct 30k years ago with the Neanderthals, and modern attempts to form atheistic communities have all failed, from the nineteenth century French revolution to the twentieth century communist experiments. The Islamists are promoting a long proven system while you are promoting a Brave New World experiment which follows a long history of failure.

    • Ahh, this is awesome.

      First, you can’t show any evidence of religion or lack of it for Neanderthals.
      Second, it’s awesome that you indicate that religion was introduced ‘about 50k years ago’ instead of the less than 10k years claimed by creationists.
      Third, there is no definition for natural born atheism, yet there is evidence that we are not born with religion – it is something that has to be indoctrinated into us.
      Fourth, there is no evidence that modern secular societies are failed, in fact there is much evidence showing exactly the opposite.
      Fifth, Islamists can only show that tight control of the population through religious dogma is nothing but remaining in the past. How many Nobel prizes have been awarded to Muslims? How many Muslims have been lauded as pioneering scientists? Islam remains a backward, draconian, brutal form of control which does everything to oppose growth, liberation, enlightenment, and anything that can be described as progress.

      In short you are arguing that what worked 1500 years ago is still applicable today. You’re not just wrong, you are laughably wrong. You are deliberately and perniciously wrong. YOU .. yes YOU, YOU ARE the problem with modern societal issues. You refuse to adapt, learn, accept. You are the reason that all Islamic states have bloody borders. YOU are the reason that backward and useless dogma does not go the way of the dodo. You keep such backward and dangerous ideas alive because you think they work. They do not work. They promote only superstition and hate. Read it again. I meant that.

    • Alan
    • July 16th, 2012

    We agree that religious training is the unnatural state of man and that my claim for the Neanderthal’s religious state is simply an assumption based on a lack of evidence for religion. Irrelevant to the point that only religious communities have survived, as they have not. The blood in the Middle East doesn’t add up to a rat fart following on the European led bloodbath of the twentieth century. More people drown in the US than are killed by Islamists. Every state has bloody borders, none bloodier than Europe’s. I am arguing that what has worked for the last 1500 years has a better chance of working than what has failed for the last 50,000 years. There are no states lacking religion (never have been), but the states moving away from religion are states that are less competitive today than they were (relative to the rest of the world) 100 years ago. Man has never formed a functioning state without religion. Ever. To believe the future will be different requires great faith, as the evidence is against you.

  1. We apparently don’t agree. The claim that only religious states have survived implies that religion imbues a society with something that you can’t have if your society is not religious. That’s utter nonsense, and it does not account for the facts of history. Once established, religion forced itself upon all citizens, not simply those willing to accept it. By implication you are saying that authoritarian states are better able to survive and offer more to society than non-authoritarian states.

    Just the same, we can see how many such religion based authoritarian states have failed, at least their early religion based incarnations: Rome, Egypt to name but two. In fact, all the great empires have fallen to a more manageable size and rule despite the fact that the empire was built on the foundations of religious authority. These states did not survive, rather a subsequent modified form have survived. No habitable spot on this planet will go uninhabited and culture crosses boundaries of failure so it is not correct to say that those religious states survived and imply that they have done so unchanged.

    The fact is that their current state is different than their starting state, lending credence to the fact that believing the future will be different requires little, if any, faith. Change is the only constant… so they say.

    That last 1500 years includes all the world wars, the crusades, Inquisition, witch hunts, and most of the most atrocious acts by humans ever recorded. It was those old values that lead to such violence, hatred, and blind bigotry. To imply that this is the best way to do things shows a marked lack of understanding. Humanity is currently enjoying the most peaceful era of its existence yet recorded. Progress has been slow and steady and violence among humans is at its lowest point ever. Your implied statement that 1500-2000 year old values are better than what we value today is simply wrong, provably wrong, laughably wrong. Those old values have been replaced and the human race is better off for it… in every conceivable way.

    The future will be different. It’s always been different. To declare that this is wrong or faulty is hubris of the highest order. To further claim that previous, now discarded, values are better goes against all progress that humanity has made in millions of years.

    No, we do NOT agree. I’m looking at the facts and the history with open eyes. You do not seem able to do so.

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