myatheistlife:

If you have not been over to Dead Wild Roses, read this reblog then get on over there. I think I’m going to start keeping a list of bloggers I’d like to have a beer with and it strikes me with this post that DWR is going on that list. It’s amazing how it only takes one tragedy to find out who are the gormless idiots around us.

Originally posted on Dead Wild Roses:

Hypocrisy is flowing from the anti-choice sites like turdsfromaoverfull diaper.  The idea that they are somehow committed to the preservation of life is the weapons-grade bullshite that religious thinking actively promotes.  The pious f*cks are equating abortion to the recent mass murder at Sandyhook Elementary School.

How dare you?

You (fetus fetishists) purport to have moral standards and then crassly use the murder of children to further your own anti-woman agenda.  I’m certainly glad that religion is such a fine moral compass and guide for behaving as a caring empathetic, human beings.

An image repost, but hey its still amazingly relevant.

abortionforidiots

So stop, just stop with the “what about the baaaaby” whinging and try to clear your addled cotton-filled heads for one microsecond.   Promote your toxic anti-female agenda – go to town (usually church) – awesome, we need exemplars to show how incredibly wrong you are.

But…

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  1. Hi Mal,

    Here is a Christian blogger who talks about “when” God should intervene.

    http://realchristianity.wordpress.com/2012/12/16/why-did-god-allow-

    the-connecticut-school-shooting/

    I myself wonder where the “enough” line should be drawn.

    robin claire

    • robin,

      Here’s my take on that post. These arguments all start off with a bad premise.

      == God could change everyone’s personality so that they cannot sin. This would also mean that we would not have a free will. We would not be able to choose right or wrong because we would be “programmed” to only do right. Had God chosen to do this, there would be no meaningful relationships between Him and His creation.==

      This is what heaven is supposed to be. A place with no evil, no wrongs, no pain, no shame, no sin etc. Since the Christian god already wants that for humans supposedly, there is no reason not to do so. If all it took were magic words of acceptance of the Jesus story then off you go to heaven it would make absolutely no difference to the end game/goal. This meaningful relationship stuff is bogus. It says that god cannot have a meaningful relationship with you unless you suffer, his love for you is unsurpassed, but it’s not that big. The adherent must suffer before being shown mercy. This is the love of an unbalanced mind.

      ==Instead, God made Adam and Eve innocent but with the ability to choose good or evil. Because of this, they could respond to His love and trust Him or choose to disobey.==

      Even in this bit, the story is about tests and suffering. They would have been fine on their own till god let the snake in the garden. Wasn’t he watching his pets? Wasn’t he looking out for them? Maybe that snake was god in disguise. He is supposed to be all knowing and all powerful which means that god as good as put that snake in the garden. You don’t set your 1 year old on the counter next to a hot stove and tell them not to touch it – do you?

      == God could compensate for people’s evil actions through supernatural intervention 100 percent of the time….==
      The Christian god won’t interfere by stopping bad people but he will send earthquakes and tsunami’s and hurricanes and disease to punish. Where is the love in that equation? Hint, there isn’t any.

      ==While this solution sounds attractive, it would lose its attractiveness as soon as God’s intervention infringed on something we wanted to do. We want God to prevent horribly evil actions, but we are willing to let “lesser-evil” actions slide—not realizing that those “lesser-evil” actions are what usually lead to the “greater-evil” actions. Should God only stop actual sexual affairs, or should He also block our access to pornography or end any inappropriate, but not yet sexual, relationships? Should God stop “true” thieves, or should He also stop us from cheating on our taxes? Should God only stop murder, or should He also stop the “lesser-evil” actions done to people that lead them to commit murder? Should God only stop acts of terrorism, or should He also stop the indoctrination that transformed a person into a terrorist?==

      That is exactly why this description of heaven shows that heaven is a bad place to be. It would be bad for humans. It would cheapen the relationship between god and his creations.

      == Another choice would be for God to judge and remove those who choose to commit evil acts. The problem with this possibility is that there would be no one left, for God would have to remove us all. We all sin and commit evil acts (Romans 3:23; Ecclesiastes 7:20; 1 John 1:8). While some people are more evil than others, where would God draw the line? Ultimately, all evil causes harm to others.==

      …except in the case of those very few who have said they accept the Jesus story. For some reason none of this applies to them. I can only imagine that they must be like robots who crave all the stuff that is no good for humans here on earth. Somehow, when they get to heaven they will be devoid of the stuff that makes them sin. Little angelic robots singing the praises of their creator for eternity.

      ==Instead of these options, God has chosen to create a “real” world in which real choices have real consequences. In this real world of ours, our actions affect others. Because of Adam’s choice to sin, the world now lives under the curse, and we are all born with a sin nature (Romans 5:12). There will one day come a time when God will judge the sin in this world and make all things new, but He is purposely “delaying” in order to allow more time for people to repent so that He will not need to condemn them (2 Peter 3:9). Until then, He IS concerned about evil. When He created the Old Testament laws, the goal was to discourage and punish evil. He judges nations and rulers who disregard justice and pursue evil. Likewise, in the New Testament, God states that it is the government’s responsibility to provide justice in order to protect the innocent from evil (Romans 13). He also promises severe consequences for those who commit evil acts, especially against the “innocent” (Mark 9:36-42).==

      Here we are reminded that someone you have no chance of ever knowing, and can’t be called a family member of did something for which you will be eternally punished if you don’t do exactly as you are told, all your life, and for eternity after you die.

      ==In summary, we live in a real world where our good and evil actions have direct consequences and indirect consequences upon us and those around us. God’s desire is that for all of our sakes we would obey Him that it might be well with us (Deuteronomy 5:29). Instead, what happens is that we choose our own way, and then we blame God for not doing anything about it. Such is the heart of sinful man. But Jesus came to change men’s hearts through the power of the Holy Spirit, and He does this for those who will turn from evil and call on Him to save them from their sin and its consequences (2 Corinthians 5:17). ==

      This won’t protect them from evil acts of non-believers. Not even close. If god does not prevent evil all this means is that you are here to suffer under the Christian god’s plan.

      ==God does prevent and restrain some acts of evil. This world would be MUCH WORSE were not God restraining evil.==
      This is a statement with zero proof or credible evidence. Ask for evidence on this one. You won’t find any in Connecticut.

      == At the same time, God has given us the ability to choose good and evil, and when we choose evil, He allows us, and those around us, to suffer the consequences of evil. Rather than blaming God and questioning God on why He does not prevent all evil, we should be about the business of proclaiming the cure for evil and its consequences—Jesus Christ!==

      This totally ignores the fact that there is violence in churches, yes even mass murders like this one. It ignores the faithful that kill doctors or witches or … the list goes on.

      The world, for all it’s good and bad, is exactly what it would look like if there were no god at all.

      Worse than any of that, this blogger claims to know what god will do or won’t do. To know the mind of a supposedly infinite god is not possible as we understand things. The post you linked to also relies on the presumption that the bible is 100% true. It’s not, and there is no credible reason to believe that it is. The author uses the OT when it suits them, yet forgets all the acts of violence committed in their god’s name in that section of their bible. God of the OT is far from loving and creates as much violence and death and suffering as he wants… he appears to have a taste for it.

    • And I’ll go you one further since it is appropriate.

      http://bittersweetend.wordpress.com/2012/12/16/the-fallacy-of-christ-the-man/

      • I read your link Mal. I don’t know how to think about that. I need to ask God about it. I’ll get back to you, probably through a post. At least the guy/gal believed in Jesus’ existence even though they thought He was only a man – and didn’t know.
        One thing I believe. God greatly values free will. He values it so much that He must allow babies to die [along with all the other mentioned atrocities] in order that it be preserved. Why He values this so much, I can not understand, but one thing I know, I take this free will I’ve been given seriously, and do my best – to use it for the best.
        The person who wrote that post focused entirely on the worst of the worst. What about the best of the best of mankind? Some bad apples can spoil a barrel; and many others will be spoiled because of them. “Wide is the gate that leads to destruction and many will enter therein, but narrow is the gate that leads to life, and few there are, who find it.”
        robin claire

    • Hi Mal,
      This is what I THINK is going on. Have you read my latest post – Beautiful People? It’s the one’s who go through these sufferings, and FIND THEIR WAY OUT [through the "narrow gate"] to the other side, that are somehow made “beautiful”. Do you not agree that there are people like this in our current state and world? Miracle Grow manure, when thrown on a soul, produced a beautiful flower. If this can be seen in this world in this way, I can only imagine how beautiful a soul will be – when it gets to heaven. I don’t know why the Miracle Grow is so important, but God does I’m sure. I don’t know why things have to be so difficult here, but God does. And I have this enormous faith in Him doing here, what needs to be done.
      I hope this analogy doesn’t make you throw up.
      robin claire

      • The fertilizer analogy is just a way of explaining something so that it can be understood in some human way. The thing being explained about god looks exactly like things would look if there were no god. It is only those that believe in god who try to explain why god lets the world look the way that it does. Neither the believer nor the non-believer has an answer that makes us feel warm and fuzzy inside, but it is the believer that has to explain why a loving god allows it… because it looks exactly as if there were no god at all.

        The fertilizer analogy also implies that we’re not good enough for heaven and were created imperfectly, yet the dogma says that we need only accept the Jesus story… that is to accept something which is not obviously true at truth.

        The believer does not know why their god does this, requires such pain, but since the believer ‘knows’ that their god exists there must be some reason for the pain and suffering, so they come up with the fertilizer analogy. This requires that we suffer to be acceptable. That’s the kind of love you get from a twisted mind.

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